Cubs set to honor Maddux, Fergie; Sosa next or never?
Mark your calendars, May 3rd the Cubs will retire #31 to honor two of the best pitchers in franchise history: Ferguson Jenkins and Greg Maddux. Roman Modrowski has the details on his Sun-Times sports blog:
The Cubs are retiring the No. 31 in honor of Ferguson Jenkins and Greg Maddux.
The ceremony will be done on Sunday, May 3 before the Cubs host the Florida Marlins.
Maddux pitched nine of his 23 major-league seasons, including his first seven, with the Cubs, winning the first of four Cy Young awards. Allowing him to leave for Atlanta still is considered one of the worst moves in Cubs history.
Jenkins pitched parts of 10 of his 19 major-league seasons with the Cubs.The Hall of Famer won the 1971 Cy Young award with the Cubs.
This is a nice honor for two deserving players. I am not questioning the reasons for retiring the numbers, but there is a 10,000 pound elephant in the room. His name is Sammy Sosa. Sosa is the most prolific power hitter in team history. I know Sammy is scarred by the steroid era and that plays a huge role in this, but the Cubs are honoring a player that retired after Sosa (Maddux) and played less years with the Cubs…thus passing over Sosa, as I’m sure the HOF will do in a few years to.
While I am a pro-Sosa guy, I understand the fans who feel like they wouldn’t want to see this done.
So instead of a long winded rant here, I want to see what you think. Should the Cubs retire Sammy Sosa’s number?
wpbc
jackfsu
jeremyt32
Absolutely. The more we learn about the “steroid era” the more we realize that the playing field was actually pretty level because EVERYONE was doing it! Okay, not everyone, but ALOT. That includes pitchers..LOTS of pitchers. Taking nothing away from Banks and Williams, but how many pitchers throwing in the mid to upper 90’s did they face? And the best pitchers pitched more because they recovered quicker. You think Clemens was alone? Also, there’s no hard evidence against Sosa. So where do you draw the line on these guys? You don’t. Let them into the HOF. Retire Sosa’s number!
Jason
March 18, 2009 at 7:49 am
christopher reeves would have more effort in the outfield than sosa.
steve
March 18, 2009 at 10:23 am
that’s true, Steve, if it weren’t for the fact that he was one of the best defensive outfielders during his time. Other than that, he was lazy and selfish though. Except for the great offense too. So, in other words, if you take away the great offense and great defense he was a pretty selfish and lazy player. I couldn’t agree more. The man never ran up the steps to get to the field and therefore he’s lazy.
MB21
March 18, 2009 at 11:36 am
christopher reeves would have more effort in the outfield than sosa.
You ever try to roll a wheelchair through grass? It’s tougher than you’d think.
And don’t confuse the issue with actual facts, MD. Besides, would you really want to run the risk that Milton Bradley might shank someone at the retirement ceremony if he were forced to give up the 21 jersey? It would be a disaster, especially since Sammy would be too lazy to run away from his assailant.
uncle dave
March 18, 2009 at 1:38 pm
Retire Sosa’s number!
Yes.
Let them into the HOF.
Yes.
The more we learn about the “steroid era” the more we realize that the playing field was actually pretty level because EVERYONE was doing it!
I’d go a step further than that and say that the effects of ’steroids’/PEDs are basically unknown. Yet what bothers me about the whole thing is that the vast majority of the sporting press, and seemingly most fans, seem to think that ’steroids’ are some magic thing — you can pop a needle in your ass and be Barry Bonds, if only you’re willing to suffer the indignity of shrunken family jewels.
That argument is absurd on its face, of course, no matter what “Rocky IV” taught us about East German scientists. I’ve come across kinesiology articles that put forth research implying that gross physical strength — you know, the trait that’s typically associated with steroid use — has very little connection to the ability to hit a baseball for distance, and that it’s technique that really matters.
Barry Bonds could win a tug-of-war against the whole ‘61 Yankees team, if such a matchup could be arranged, but I refuse to believe that he owes any part of his legacy other than his longevity to banned (or, as it turns out, non-banned) substances. You want answers, first take a quick look at his postage stamp-sized strike zone, or maybe even the ball.
uncle dave
March 18, 2009 at 1:50 pm
Steve, your blog sucks.
choog
March 18, 2009 at 2:00 pm
Cause those guys are old…
wpbc
March 18, 2009 at 2:05 pm
that’s not very nice
wpbc
March 18, 2009 at 2:13 pm
You’d be surprised by how much dead people weigh. I hear Mantle’s liver alone is like 35 pounds…
uncle dave
March 18, 2009 at 2:40 pm
on a sidenote, I love to hear stories of Mantle, Billy Martin and Whitey Ford. They lived the life…
wpbc
March 18, 2009 at 3:15 pm
Yeah, apparently ol’ Fergie wasn’t shy of it, either. The 1980 thing notwithstanding, I seem to remember him being mentioned fairly liberally in Bill Lee’s book (a must-read for stories re: living the life).
uncle dave
March 18, 2009 at 5:41 pm
Excellent point regarding the #21 ceremony. The Cubs cannot do this until Milton Bradley is gone. He would kill people.
MB21
March 18, 2009 at 6:08 pm
I thought about that today uncle dave. notice how nobody ever mentions what happened to Fergie
wpbc
March 18, 2009 at 6:19 pm
good point. he’s angry…
wpbc
March 18, 2009 at 6:19 pm
Retiring a number should be the GREATEST honor a player can have — the Hall of Fame is an arbitrary award for a full career, but a number should never be retired for any player who does not spend a majority of his career on a team. Fergie and Maddux, two guys I loved on the mound for the Cubs, should have been eligible for this, but really I would not retire for these two. Fergie is borderline; most of this best seasons were here. Maddux had one — one — great year here. He succeeded as an Atlanta Brave. Not nearly enough time here. Should we retire Lou Brock’s #20? Really, Nolan Ryan should NOT have had his number retired anywhere — too many moves, too many teams.
Rick Beato
March 18, 2009 at 7:08 pm
You bring up good questions Rick, Maddux played less than half his career for the Cubs, Fergie was 10 years of 19. Are those long enough contributions to a team to retire numbers? I don’t know. Up until this point Banks, Williams, Santo and Sandberg had spent the majority of their career with the Cubs.
wpbc
March 19, 2009 at 6:59 am
This morning the TRIBUNE printed their records, and Fergie won over 160 Cub games, Maddux over 130. Fergie won about 120 games elsewhere and only won 20 once outside Chicago. Maddux won 222 games in other uniforms. The number belongs to Fergie; as Greg’s number it only reminds us that Larry Himes may have been the worst general manager in history. Nice evaluation, Larry.
Rick Beato
March 19, 2009 at 8:22 am
I hate Larry Himes.
Jose Guzman, Dan Plesac and Randy Meyers > Greg Maddux
…good lord
wpbc
March 19, 2009 at 9:08 am
Fergie had the 6 consecutive 20 win seasons in there too I believe…
wpbc
March 19, 2009 at 9:09 am
The more I think about it, Maddux should have his number retired as an Atlanta Brave not as a Chicago Cub.
wpbc
March 19, 2009 at 9:10 am
Yes, but those were for our ballclub. That is the main reason why I can handle him getting the number retired. He won 27 in Texas his first year away, for seven straight, but never did that again.
Rick Beato
March 19, 2009 at 10:19 am
wow, i knew he had 6 consecutive with the Cubs but didn’t know it went to 7 with the Rangers. Who did the Cubs get for Fergie? I’m too lazy to look it up…
wpbc
March 19, 2009 at 10:50 am
Maddux will get his number retired as a Brave. I don’t really have a problem with the Cubs retiring his number. He didn’t end up as the greatest Cubs pitcher in history, but he was the greatest pitcher to ever wear a Cubs uniform. And he wore it for a long enough period of time that I don’t have a problem at all with honoring him as a Cub.
I don’t really have a problem with Fergie either, but aren’t we sending the wrong message once again? I thought baseball players were supposed to be the cleanest people on the planet? Why honor someone like Fergie IF that is the case? He was a great pitcher, but I don’t think baseball, or its fans, get to have it both ways. If steroids are enough to get you exiled then cocaine sure should be too.
Ask yourself, which of those drugs have ruined more lives? Which of them has ruined the lives of more children? It’s not even close. Cocaine is a far more pervasive and dangerous drug than steroids ever will be, but baseball doesn’t give a shit.
MB21
March 19, 2009 at 12:33 pm
[...] Tags: chicago cubs, cubs history, sammy sosa, tribune trackback Yesterday I asked the question should the Cubs retire Sammy Sosa’s number? The overwhelming response was no they should. In my very scientific survey 26 of you (68%) believe [...]
Hatchet job to Sosa was well executed by Tribsters « waxpaperbeercup
March 19, 2009 at 3:59 pm
[...] I asked the question should the Cubs retire Sammy Sosa’s number? The overwhelming response was no they should. In my very scientific survey 26 of you (68%) believe [...]
Hatchet job to Sosa was well executed by Tribsters « MySportsScoop.com
March 19, 2009 at 4:04 pm
Maddux does not deserve to have his number retired by the Cubs. Did he help the Cubs win the world series or the pennant? No. He helped the Braves win the world series and the pennant. Only the Cubs would honor a guy for his accomplishments with another team!
Charles
May 4, 2009 at 11:37 am
The Cubs must be the most fickle franchise of all time. And probably the dumbest. Nothing they do makes any sense even along its own twisted logic. Sosa played most of his career in a Cubs uniform, Maddux played less than half of his career in a Cubs uniform. Almost all of Sosa’s glory was in a Cubs uniform, Maddux’ best years were with the Braves. Sosa left over 5 years ago, Maddux just retired. The Cubs have passed Sosa’s number along to whoever wants it while they refused to let Ted Lilly wear #31 back in 2007 cuz of Maddux. The math just isn’t adding up here. It’s so sick & ridiculous that I feel this has to be the twilight zone. I hate the Cubs. I’m the one fan who they lost as a result of trading Sosa 5 years ago (good thing too as I wouldn’t have been able to deal with the White Sox as world champions if I would have stayed a Cubs fan, yeah I was that hardcore).
Just wait Cub fans and see when Maddux gets elected to the Hall of Fame as an ATLANTA BRAVE. And to be completely honest with y’all, I don’t care to see Sosa elected to the HOF as the entire thing is such a fraud. We’re entering into an era where the best players will not be a part of the Hall of Fame. More than half of that exclusive club is honoring a racist culture of the past. How can we in today’s society give any credibility to something where people of color weren’t even allowed to participate for a very long time. No stat and none of your most precious treasured records should count if there were restrictions on what race could & couldn’t play the game. As far as I’m concerned the Chicago Cubs have never even won a world series. Blacks weren’t allowed to even play back then!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh and by the way, Sosa never tested postive for steroids, he was never even directly implicated like Big Mac & Bonds were. In Sosa’s last two seasons (of declining numbers supposedly) in a Cubs uniform, how conveniently the fans forget that he did miss large portions of the season (almost a fourth of the season in each ‘03 & ‘04), but still put up numbers that any other player would kill for. The math just simply isn’t making any sense as to what the Cub fans are basing their hatred for Sosa on.
And you know what, just walk way and forget the whole thing ever happened. I don’t think he would want to come through for any phony ceremony in front of the most phony fans in the world.
Heartbreak
May 14, 2009 at 9:31 pm
heartbreak,
earlier this week i had a conversation with a friend about how much the cubs owe their popularity and ticket sales to sosa. before sammy, wrigley field didn’t sell out everyday even in bad weather months like april and may. before sammy cub fans didn’t takeover opposing teams ballparks like they do in so many towns throughout the year.
sammy brought alot of new fans to this club. the way the media and the fan base has treated him since has disappointed me.
i’m am sure there are more fans like you out there heartbreak. i don’t blame you for taking a hike.
wpbc
May 15, 2009 at 11:13 am
Since it’s now been revealed that Sosa tested positive, his number should not be eligible for retirement.
He may also be on the hook for lying to Congress.
Wonderful guy.
Pete
June 16, 2009 at 3:58 pm